The home of fiction author Val Gryphin…

Zooty and Flapper follow-up

February 25th, 2008

A couple of weeks ago, I wrote about Zooty & Flapper, a “pre-publishing site” that several sites, including Storycrafters and Writers Beware, warned authors off of as it took away a writer’s first publishing rights for very little payoff. The proprietor of said Z&F site, Mr. Pappalardo, who apparently is tracking down and commenting on and/or chastising the authors of posts about him left a comment on my post about him. While it didn’t address any of the specific problems I and other raised about this site, he raised a couple of points that I want to rebut.

Thank you for your comments.
I have been called a scam, clueless, stupid, jerk, etc by the followers of Jean and Victoria Strauss. Both have said I know nothing about marketing a book. I do not know the publishing industry.
Note: Forbes did a story back in 12.01.06 about an author Cory Doctorow who gave away 30,000 free books (down-load) to readers. Within three years he had sold 700,000 of the same book. Cory never has a book published before he gives it away free.
http://www.mdbell had a story today about author Neil Gaiman. His publisher agreed he should give away free (down-load) one of his books to build a larger following.
Those who think I’m a nut might want to read the above. And, there are others.
The experts who have made an effort to bury me, should first check what has proven to work.


The thing that most of the commenters were concerned about was the site’s announced intention of offering other people’s manuscripts for free. The concerns that were given about Z&F had nothing to do with whether an author could give away their own work and succeed, although there aren’t a whole lot of success stories. The examples he lists prove absolutely nothing about his site and its originally stated intention. Doctorow was giving and away and promoting his OWN work - not taking on others’ work and publishing it all on one site. The thing is though, Doctorow devoted a huge amount of energy to ONE book - how could a site that offered to publish many authors’ work possibly even attempt to do anything close to that? And Gaiman? there is no way that man has to worry about a book contract. He is a brilliant writer with graphic novels, movies and books under his belt. He has nothing to loose by giving his work away free.

Pappalardo also has a page up where he talked about first rights that gives me cause for concern because of the misinformation he is spreading. For instance, while he is correct on what constitutes published, he is wrong on much of what he considers to be unpublished. (Bold text is mine.)

1) You gave up your first North American serial rights.
2) Your book went through an editorial process.
3) It appeared in an online journal.
4) It appeared in print publication..even a small print run.
5) It appeared in a literary anthology (collection).


All correct.

Unpublished if….
1) Won a prize but not printed. correct
2) In a workshop ( online writing workshop ). ONLY if the online workshop was password protected, i.e. not available to the general web population. If it was an open workshop. it has been published.
3) Appeared on a blog.. but this is changing. Has been considered published for quite a while. Some publications might not consider it published, but most do.


He also has some misconceptions reguarding what authors want.

If you are an unknown writer building a following of readers, you may want to give up the first right to a book.
Publishers do not want a one book wonder anyway. Your second, third etc books will have a following you can show a publisher.
Read rosenfelds article on Writers Digest and determine what is best for you. Most publishers and/or agents really don’t care about someone’s web following unless they like the book. So giving up those rights has not real benefit.

As for myself, I have chose to give first rights to a publisher before giving away free books. If well received by readers, my publisher will still have first serial rights. This is super confusing. If he has given first rights to a publisher, than that means it has to be published in that format before he can offer it for free online - and only IF the terms of his contract allows it. If it hasn’t been published in their format, by posting it online he is taking first rights away from them, and that could get him in a whole bunch of trouble. First rights is the first time it appears in print. Period.


I stand by my original post on Z&F. As he is now pushing only his own work though, he can publish and promote it however he likes. However, I partially agree with him on one thing - that giving away some of your own work can help bring in publicity and reap some rewards. I’ll post more on that tomorrow.

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3 Responses to “Zooty and Flapper follow-up”

  1. Rosie

    Neil Gaimon needs a bigger following like I need more fat cells.

    You know, there are just so many of these scams, probably because there are so many writers out there who can’t and unfortunately shouldn’t be published. And many many who should be, but aren’t.

    I wish there were shortcuts to the current formula that is most successful, but aside from the lightening striking as it does for a handful of writers out of millions–there just aren’t any shortcuts.

    You know, not only do the agents not care about one’s web following, but its considered amateurish to include any mention of one’s blog or website. I never include my blog on any correspondence with journals. Even ezines.

  2. Domenic Pappalardo

    Thank you for the fair look at zooty and flappers.
    The subject of first rights is clear, if those rights are sold. My search in that area lead me to; first rights on the Internet. I and many others have put much work into figuring it out, with little results. There is a thread I started on..my writers circle.. under; Have you given away first rights? I think it is worth looking at. My understanding (and it could be wrong), is if published on the Internet, first rights are gone (?). Some say yes and some say don’t know.
    Domenic Pappalardo.

  3. Domenic Pappalardo

    A side comment by Domenic Pappalardo;
    All court cases I could find of first rights, are after the rights had been sold. There is no court case I have found were a writer had been taken to court for publishing his/her own work. True if this was with-held from a buyer, the buyer (publisher) could take the writer to court. There seems to be no law if the work has not been sold. If given away, it could fall under marketing, or so it seems. And again, this is not clear. The copy right laws do not seem to have filled this void as yet.

    As to Neil Gaimon not needing a larger following, sorry rosie, unless you can show statements from his publisher that what you say is true, you’re just another spooting off about things you know nothing about. I have a story showing his publisher was who wanted that done.
    When I first posted offering to let writers give their books away free, I was standing in muddy water. It seems the water is muddy and not a clear issue.
    There are experts in the field of law, who say, “I just don’t know.”
    I am glad the issue was cast into some light. I do hope we all work to get some agency of law to say yay or nay to this issue. It needs to be addressed.
    Domenic pappalardo

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